OK, I think I have a lead on what rankles me on the Captain America Hydra thing.

First off, let’s watch this clip.

See that?  To use Champions terms, that’s what a 30 or 40 CHA [UPDATE: PRE. I am a horrible, horrible person for that mistake. For reals.] looks like. In GURPS terms, Cap must be running with at least Charisma +6, Voice (+2), Handsome (+2/+4*), for a +10 to reaction rolls, even BEFORE the Reputation, Status, Sense of Duty, Code of Honor, and other advantages/disadvantages that give a plus to reaction rolls kick in. I note this because the cop clearly doesn’t recognize Captain America, which is odd, but probably the player didn’t buy Reputation up to ‘all the time.’ But it doesn’t freaking matter, because +10 is usually perfectly good for your purposes.

OK, so now that we’ve roleplaying game-geeked this a little, let me point out gently that this means that one of Captain America’s superpowers is being trustworthy and inspirational.  I mean, yes, he’s also just beyond the pinnacle of regular human development in every possible way, but Cap’s biggest power is pretty much that he can take tactical command of a situation and see everyone through it.  Because he’s Captain America, and while Captain America can fail, you can absolutely trust him to do the right thing.  Which means that, on a nitty-gritty level, that what print comics Marvel is trying to do right now with their Captain Hydra bullsh*t is the equivalent of DC Comics trying to tell people that Superman isn’t actually bulletproof: no, see, he’s been wearing this Kryptonian super-suit all along and without it he’s just another guy.

…Yeah, that’s not gonna fly.

Moe Lane

*It’s not Very Handsome because that can lead to people resenting Cap’s looks if they have some other reason to dislike him, and that just doesn’t fit the character.

13 thoughts on “OK, I think I have a lead on what rankles me on the Captain America Hydra thing.”

  1. The question is “Why the hell should I take orders from you?” Not “Who are you?” The cop most likely recognizes Captain America, he’s just wondering why he should listen. And then obeys when Cap demonstrates why.

    1. Yeah, but if the cop recognizes Cap then there’s another +8 to the roll right there. At least. The only way to flub a +18 reaction roll check is to crit fail it, and I just don’t see that happening in this scene. 🙂

    2. The “Asskicking Equals Authority” trope was definitely in play in that scene.

  2. This, and the whole Thor is now a girl thing. Thor is a name, not a title or job. Just because she is worthy enough to wield mjolnir doesn’t mean she’s Thor. Heck in that case, can we refer to Vision as Thor too?

    1. Part of me thinks it’s the tearing down of icons and the lack of originality from the writers. I can see moving a story line forward, but all of them don’t have to be an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

      1. To be fair, this isn’t the first time Marvel does done the “Thor is a job” thing. They did it with Beta Ray Bill and again with Eric Masterson and again with Thor’s kids in some of the What If stories. (And to some extent with Frog Thor too, I guess.) If Foster was Thor in a vacuum, it might fly, but when combined with all of the other shenanigans that are currently going on, well, then it starts being an issue.
        Side note- for non-comics fans, The Avengers came out in 2012. Of the six main heroes in that film, all of those heroes have had someone else in that costume during a chunk of the last five years. And for side characters, the same is true for Nick Fury and even Loki (who has been teen Loki, She-Loki and Presidential Candidate Loki during that time period. ) It’s a big problem for Marvel.

        1. But, they had their own names, no one called Beta-Ray Bill “Thor” as his name like “You are now the Thor”.

  3. Not to mention that Captain America is the moral compass for the Marvel universe. He’s the hub everything revolves around. He’s the loadstar everyone looks to in a crisis. If he’s evil, the entire construct falls apart.
    It could have been done as one of those What If? Episodes Marvel used to be so fond of.
    It could be done as a standalone, like DC did with Superman in Red Son.
    They could have had a “everyone thinks you’re dead, so it’s the perfect cover for you to infiltrate…” And made him face tough choices with no one at his back. Like DC did with Dick Greyson/Nightwing (the morality pet of the entire DC universe).
    But they didn’t do any of that. Fans don’t tend to like it when you scream at them that “Everything you know is a lie!”

  4. Tampering with the underpinnings of your fictional world this way is so obviously suicidal to me that I have wonder.

    Whose idea was this?
    Why do this?
    Who are they working for?

    Or do you think that the Will to Be Stupid was just so powerful that it sucked all the decision makers into its Abyss?

  5. I think it is more than that: Captain America is an archetype, not just of human decency, honor and Integrity, but also of America itself. One could even argue that he is a primary archetype of Western Culture.

    To be completely honest, I believe that the people running Marvel just don’t like the character- and all he represents. To them he is boring, or that what they are doing a storyline to show what they really believe is behind all of those notions.

    What we see as a bug is really them just telling us who they really are and what they believe. It is not a bug, it is how this is all supposed to work in their eyes.

  6. Charisma? Presence, Moe. PRE. Frigging Gurps players with their strongliness, agility,psyche and hit points stats getting all of ours wrong.

    1. I know, right?
      (I say as a GURPS fanboy who has had to deal with Champions players.)
      I saw the line about being too attractive causing a negative modifiers, and wondered how long it would take. 🙂
      It was fun to pull stupid gurps tricks on a GM who wasn’t familiar with them, though. How much DX and ST does a Mentalist really need, after all?

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