A lot of people worrying about Central Europe right now.

I’ve had my, ah, difference of opinions with Anne Applebaum, but she sounds damned worried here:

Over and over again — throughout the entirety of my adult life, or so it feels — I have been shown Polish photographs from the beautiful summer of 1939: The children playing in the sunshine, the fashionable women on Krakow streets. I have even seen a picture of a family wedding that took place in June 1939, in the garden of a Polish country house I now own. All of these pictures convey a sense of doom, for we know what happened next.September 1939 brought invasion from both east and west, occupation, chaos, destruction, genocide. Most of the people who attended that June wedding were soon dead or in exile. None of them ever returned to the house.

In retrospect, all of them now look naive. Instead of celebrating weddings, they should have dropped everything, mobilized, prepared for total war while it was still possible. And now I have to ask: Should Ukrainians, in the summer of 2014, do the same? Should central Europeans join them?

…and here’s the thing.  Ms. Applebaum is married to the Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs. The question of whether another set of Russian tanks are going to roll over Poland again is not exactly a detached question to her: and the sight of Vladimir Zhirinovsky – a man who I did not want to believe could possibly exist in real life, when I first encountered him – idly talking about nuking a place where her family lives is perhaps not genially amusing to the woman.  Never forget: people are always conservative about the stuff that they like, and know best.

Moe Lane

PS: I’m sorry, but I don’t know what the hell we can do about Russia invading Ukraine that isn’t already obvious to everybody except Barack Obama.

28 thoughts on “A lot of people worrying about Central Europe right now.”

  1. It’s already too late for the Ukrainians. So long as the Russians control the video coming out of the conflict — and spread a little “walking around” money to the Useful Idiots Mk2 — there will be no outrage.
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    They shot down an airliner from a third-party nation, prevented recovery efforts from accessing the site until they had sanitized it, AND NO ONE CARED.

    1. The Ukraine censors the internet and strongly controls all media inside its borders. Here in America, 90% of the in-country reports are filed from Kiev. That’s like having a liberal journalist in San Francisco report on conditions in Alabama.

        1. And you talk of “Russian controlled video” while you swallow hook, line and sinker everything the American media reports on Russia.

          1. I’m just gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that anyone who not only reads but posts here at moelane.com *might* be more suspicious of the media than you seem to think…
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            Instead of arguing that your opponent is misinformed, put up some links showing information that counters the misinformation.
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            Or .. do not. It’s your choice, eh?
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            Mew

  2. So, let’s recap. In 2004, the Ukraine voted for pro-Euro leadership. This leadership was just as corrupt as the previous leadership that in 2010, the people voted 48-45 for pro-Russian leadership (and, yes, it was a fair election, because the pro-Euro leadership flooded the east with European observers). But the pro-Russian leadership refuses to ratify a trade agreement (and no one in America has even read this agreement, mind you). There is a coup in the western Ukrainian capital of Kiev. Now the Crimea decides enough is enough, holds an election, and darn near unanimously votes to not only secede but come under Russian control. This is reported as “Russian aggression”. The eastern half of the Ukraine holds an election as well and votes by a 85-15 margin to be independent. This is ignored by Europe and America. Now all of the fighting is occurring in the east, train stations, airports, infrastructure like water treatment facilities and factories have been bombed, police forces massacred, tens of thousands of refugees have fled to Russia, and still the west holds to the story line that Russia is invading the Ukraine. Meanwhile NATO is implementing plans to expand into eastern Europe. So a quick summary: elections don’t mean squat if they don’t go your way, people in the eastern Ukraine are persons-non-grata and their suffering will be ignored, the exodus from the eastern Ukraine will allow the western Ukraine to dominate further elections, and NATO is expanding. But Anne Applebaum is worried about Russian tanks rolling into Poland because she is an idiot. smh
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    Sorry, just had to vent.

    1. I do not think that Anne Applebaum is an idiot because she worries about Russian tanks rolling into Poland. If I had family in Poland I would be worried about precisely the same thing. Shoot, I’m worried now.

      1. I have family in the eastern Ukraine and I worry because they are under attack now. Putin’s “aggression” in Georgia, and now eastern Ukraine, has been defensive, protecting neighboring people groups from western supported thugs. So, yes, Applebaum is an idiot for comparing Putin to Hitler.

        1. So … Military maneuvers that result in Russia controlling additional territory -plebiscite or no- is now “defensive” of non-Russian citizens?
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          Wow.
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          Just who were these regions under attack from, that such a defense is necessary?
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          Mew

          2. There is no comparison. And this is not news to anyone.
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            jetty, you’re an epic troll.
            But the claim that Russia was threatened by Georgia was a bridge too far.
            There is simply no way that you could be so foolish as to actually believe that.
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            Everyone’s ability to take you seriously will forever be informed by the blatant falsehoods you’ve made on this thread, in active support of a murderous dictator.

          3. @Luke – Georgia was threatening the people of S. Ossetia, not Russia. Saakashvili had publicly declared that he would take back the territory at any cost, and since he hated the Ossetians (and they hated Georgia), then what would matter if a few hundred or a few thousand died after they invaded? Easier to manage, from his point of view. But the evil Dr. Putin stopped his invasion.
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            Do make a straw man argument out of my post then jump into name calling is pathetic.

          4. I don’t much care if the spade resents being called a spade.
            It’s still a spade.
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            Of course, calling you a troll *is* giving you the benefit of the doubt.
            I freely admit that this may not be justified.

    2. “darn near unanimously votes to not only secede but come under Russian control”
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      Amazing what Russian vote-counters can accomplish.
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      What’s your beef with NATO expanding? How does that excuse Putin’s Puppets shooting down an airliner from an uninvolved country?

      1. Because we blew it with NATO expansion. Putin was looking for partners in the west when he first came to power. He felt betrayed by Europe/America in 2004 after the Orange Revolution, then again with the debacle in Georgia. NATO expansion is most likely the cause, not the effect, of our problems with Russia.

      2. And, yes Crawford, the people in the Crimea rejected Kiev and WANTED to move under Russia. I’ve actually been there.

        1. Yes, because a lot of Russians moved to Crimea after the “native” population was decimated/exterminated …by the Russians. History there is deep and bloody. The Tsars and their successors loved a loyal buffer zone.
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          Mew

          1. Yes, regardless of the history, the fact is that a lot of Russian nationals live in the Crimea and eastern Ukraine today. The government they voted for was overthrown. Their vote to secede was ignored. And America talks of democracy?

          2. Russia talks about democracy, China talks about democracy, the EU talks about democracy, the USA, for all our faults, *practices* democracy.
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            I note here that your assertion of partner-seeking came with strings… I do not find rejecting those to be unreasonable, nor for the rejection – a routine thing in international relations – to give Putin carte blanc today, eh?
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            Mew

    3. Russians don’t exactly have a history of free and fair, let alone not cheating, elections.

      I’m not saying those elections were fraudulently won. I’m saying it’s reasonable to believe they might have been fraudulently won.

      Saddam Hussein routinely won 99.999% in HIS elections.

        1. *sips coffee*
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          Pretty sure I’m still within the estimated blast radius if the Soviets decided to take out a couple Chicago area targets…
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          Given how .. cranky .. I get without my coffee, humanity is better off with me being among the early dead.
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          Mew

    1. With good reason. Putin’s every bit as evil as Hitler, but doesn’t have the Achilles heel of Bat-S*** Crazy to hamstring him for us.

  5. Mark my words, my friends, there will be no peace in Europe as long as Vladimir Putin’s head remains attached to his shoulders… My personal preference for dealing with the murdering KGB scumbag would be to have it mounted over my fireplace, but that’s just me.

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